Just like in the Prius, although even better in the Leaf, this is THE BEST CAR for napping children. You can let the a/c stay on, and sit for hours (I sat for 2 hours today while my son napped waiting outside Lowe's to do my returns while I finished reading a library book.) The car only "runs" when it needs to and uses VERY little power - unlike a gas or diesel car. If you have napping children, or need to idle a lot, get a hybrid or EV. The Prius sometimes would jiggle a bit when the engine kicked on - not so with the Leaf! The a.c kept the car nice and cool even though I was parked in full sun.
I also called ChargePoint today and she told me the Thermostat Error on the Quick Chargers should go away on its own after the cable cools. I am not convinced though, she could not give me an estimate how long that would take in full sun, outdoors, on an 80 degree day. (I gave her options, "Is it closer to 1 hours, 24 hours, 72 hours.") I then started to explain Newton's Law of Cooling - I even uttered those words! Ha! I then decided that data is out there - I will just have to look for the temperature that triggers the alarm. (Anyone know this? Find this?)
Lastly, I got my QuickPoint charge cards in the mail. They will be handy if my cell is ever dead and I need to charge. I activated them. They have an RFID chip in them. (You can also use a credit card with an RFID chip in it if your cell is dead.)
Now on to wall charger. I need to install a 20 Amp charger at home. I am looking at this model:
http://www.clippercreek.com/store/product/hcs-40p-30a-240v-charging-25-cord-nema-14-50-plug/
It is in theory, portable. (If you go somewhere where someone has an electric dryer.)
There is a DIY group,
http://emotorwerks.com/products/online-store/product/show/44-customizable-juicebox-an-open-source-level-2-15kw-ev-charging-station-v8-9-shipping-now-starting-july-21-2014
However, it seems like perhaps pre-assembled is better and then it costs the same as the Clipper Creek. An electrician is coming in the AM to give me bid for running a dryer plug to my garage. My husband (who is NOT an electrician) seems certain he could do it. Stay tuned for the bid.
And yes, I can mail someone my cable that came with the Leaf and convert it for $400. However, I would no longer be able to charge from a standard outlet. I feel like I should keep the possibility for charging from a regular outlet since they are so prolific.
Next project: Get pricing info for installing a 40 amp charging station (not a Quick Charger) at my work! Given their new sustainability initiative and new administration, the timing is good! I work at a non-profit, so federal tax incentives are not going to entice them . . .
New to EVs? Here is a map of ChargePoint stations:
In St. Louis, here are the ones that are listed. (Remember, the three at BJC garage are not "listed", so there are more out there . . . )
Where do you think St. Louis needs more chargers? Post below.
Stats from today:
- average "mpg": still 3.9 miles per kWh.
- miles driven: 77 miles
- charges at stations: ZERO
- ChargePoint cards activated: 2
- How much I am lovin' the car today on a scale of 0-10: 9.5 :)
Hi Mel,
ReplyDeleteJen and I are thinking about getting a Tesla. Crazy idea? How long do you expect your Leaf battery to last? Have you noticed any battery capacity loss? Check out our Google Sheet, https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1uUGfqdy2c3qB4B1O7V0vRy983I1n-3gmW9rBvI1KQiY/edit?usp=sharing. Do the assumptions look valid?
Have you measured how much power you are putting into the battery vs getting out? Do you use 120 V at home or 220 V?
Nate: Elias says the following
DeleteThere has been no battery capacity lost in our Leaf. Its fairly easy to check by comparing average mileage per charge and the percentage points of battery capacity lost. This was how I discovered that Nissans 24Kwh battery is actually a 20Kwh battery with 4Kwh backup. Drawing 20Kwh out of the battery will drop the battery charge to 0%. I am still flustered by this labelling but it is still a 24Kwh battery. Even after the battery has been completely depleted there is still no change in acceleration. I bet at negative 10% the car will reduce acceleration and other functions. I don't really know I have never heard of anyone doing this. If the Leaf were my car I think I would routinely drive it to negative 20% just to prove a point. If you did this you could drive more than 120 miles in the summer on a single charge. I have had to promise Mel I won’t drive it below 9%.
I have not had a chance to measure the actual efficiency of the car including charging losses. I do not have an ammeter. I would use the household electricity meter to measure total consumption and compare it to the cars reported electricity usage. I just haven't had a chance yet.
The only thing that stands out to me and your assumptions, is the Tesla costing more than twice as much for electricity. I've seen some published numbers that can't be correct listed on other vehicles. In the summer with no heat the Leaf will get around 4 to 4.5 miles per kilowatt hour. If you drive it like the 2000 solar car you can get around 5.5-5.8 miles per kilowatt-hour giving it a range of 110 miles or so.
The data I have seen for the Tesla, looking at the cars display of mileage and power consumption, puts the Tesla getting around 333 to 350 watts hours per mile. I believe this comes out to make the Tesla mileage about 3 miles to 3.5 miles per kilowatt hour.
I forget how cold it gets there but the winter will cause the Nissan Leaf to have a fairly substantial drop in range OR drop-in driver comfort. In the winter it is fairly easy to have your mileage drop to 3. 2 miles per kilowatt - down from 4.2 in the summer. When range is not an issue then crank the heat!
Other things that you will not find published elsewhere or at least I haven't seen elsewhere is about quick charging. In temperatures below around 25 degrees the quick charging rate drops substantially. Nissan fast charger charges it 40 kilowatts normally but can drop to 11 kilowatts at temperatures near 10 degrees. So my opinion is that the Nissan Leaf, in extreme cold, does not have an effective quick charger. Even if Tesla’s have exactly the same problem in cold weather with their fast charger, it will still keep your charging rate more than 40,000 Watts because Tesla's quick charger is 4 times faster and the battery pack is about three times as big.
They really are very different cars. I love the leaf. I love small cars. We picked up our Leaf really cheap. I had been hunting for years before I found this price. We will save about $21,000 in fuel costs driving to 200k and assuming $3.80 in average fuel prices and comparing the Leaf to my 30 MPG Honda Fit.
If you’re feeling frugal I’m sure you could find a Leaf relatively cheap then get a Tesla in a couple of years. The Leaf would do all but a few of your yearly trips without charging in public. But, the leaf is a small car. I don't think I have ever seen you drive a car this small since you've had children. I don't mind the small size at all. Wyatt is even still rear facing and there is plenty of room for the 4 of us.
I can say we have experienced no range anxiety driving our Leaf, since we have many Quick Chargers in our metro area. (And Mel cannot easily plug in at work. Yet.)
Nate, My advice would be to check with a local EV Club to see if your numbers make sense to them - with similar weather & electric costs. Maybe this one: http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/group.php?groupid=32
DeleteThanks for the info. The nice thing in Seattle is that the temperature rarely goes below 30F and above 80F.
DeleteI'm seeing great deals on used Leaf's. 3 years old for about $12,000. My main hesitation with the Leaf is being able to go hiking or skiing up in the mountains from time to time while Jen has the ICE car in Prosser. Hiking is about 30 miles away (one way). Skiing is 50-75 miles away. With the elevation gain and no charging at the trail heads or ski area, I probably wouldn't make it home.
I would buy a Telsa in a HEARTBEAT if I could! We charge with a 220 - it is much better. We have not noticed any battery capacity loss and I do not baby them. (They recommend you charge only to 80%, I always charge to 100%.) However, the Leaf has 24 kWh battery pack, but you only use 20 kWh. The Leaf has 12 bars of energy. Nissan guarantees that after 100,000 miles you will have 10 bars. Also, they have a program where you pay $100 or $110 a month so you can have your batteries replaced as needed, not in one giant chunk.
ReplyDeleteIn our Prius, we have not noticed a significant change in batteries. However, it would be more difficult to detect. (It is 2008 with 12x,000 ? miles on it.)
The most substantial cut to battery is low temps and VERY high temps. I will look at the spreadsheet and get back to you. I did my own extensive spreadsheet!!